Xinhua, Beijing, September 1 (Xinhua) How to go on the road of agricultural modernization? Who will promote it? What will be the structure of China's rural areas in the future? A few days ago, Han Changfu, Minister of the Ministry of Agriculture, interviewed reporters on these major issues related to the development of "agriculture, rural areas and farmers".

"This horse has a short leg, and this leg is the basic support leg"

Reporter: The 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China proposed to promote the "four modernizations". What is the position of agricultural modernization?

Han Changfu: The "four modernizations" of industrialization, informatization, urbanization and agricultural modernization are the important historical process of national modernization. If compared to a horse, now three legs are longer and one leg is shorter, and this short leg is also the back leg, which is the basic support leg. China's development is unbalanced and uncoordinated, especially in the relationship between urban and rural areas and the relationship between industry and agriculture. In the final analysis, the development of agricultural modernization lags behind, the construction of new rural areas lags behind, and farmers' income, quality improvement, and rights and interests protection lag behind.

The proportion of agriculture in GDP is declining and will decline further, which in no way means that the status of agriculture will decline. No matter how developed, it is necessary to eat; No matter how advanced, the problem of farmers must be solved. The more we accelerate industrialization and urbanization, the more we should pay attention to agricultural modernization. Otherwise, the pace of development will be unstable.

Reporter: What should we pay attention to when dealing with the relationship between workers and farmers and between urban and rural areas in the new era?

Han Changfu: Over the past 30 years of reform and opening up, China's agricultural development has made great achievements, especially since the new century, the grain production has increased "nine in a row" and the farmers' income has increased "nine in a row". The situation is encouraging, and China's modern agricultural road has laid a good foundation. "Four modernizations" is the key. Without industrialization and urbanization, agricultural modernization cannot be achieved. If industrialization and urbanization demand agricultural resources for free and at a low price, the problem of "where the money comes from, where the people go" is not solved properly, and the process of agricultural modernization will be restricted, which in turn will affect the process of industrialization and urbanization.

In the past, during the period of unified purchase and marketing, the "scissors difference" of industrial and agricultural products made great contributions and sacrifices to farmers. Now this problem has been solved relatively well, but the "scissors difference" of factor exchange is still prominent. For example, after the land is expropriated, not much of the huge value-added income falls to the farmers. The wages of migrant workers have increased, but different pay for the same work, and many people do not have social security. Farmers still make a net contribution to industrialization and urbanization. This problem needs to be solved step by step.

"The pace of progress cannot be slow, nor can it be urgent"

Reporter: Compared with western developed countries, China has a large agricultural population and a weak foundation. How should we consider these national factors in agricultural modernization?

Han Changfu: In China's agricultural modernization, we should pay attention to China's national conditions and base ourselves on Chinese characteristics. Unlike the large-scale agricultural modernization of the United States and other western developed countries, China has many agricultural resources, and has strong industrial equipment and urban drive; Also different from the modernization of Japan, South Korea and other East Asian countries, their agricultural population is relatively small. For example, the total population of South Korea was only 30 million in the 1970s, and the "New Village Movement" changed the face of rural areas in the past decade. China was developed on the basis of small-scale peasant economy. At the beginning of the founding of the People's Republic of China, 90% of the population were farmers, and only 19% of the urban population until 1980. Now the statistics show that the urban population is more than half, but the farmers are still the majority. The modernization of such a large agricultural population has no precedent in the world.

The unique national conditions determine that China's agricultural modernization cannot be slow or urgent, and it needs a long process. To develop modern agriculture, it is impossible to carry out agricultural mechanization without a certain scale, and it is also difficult to connect with the market. Therefore, China's agriculture should also follow the path of large-scale operation. However, large-scale operation must be based on the massive transfer of farmers. If farmers do not transfer out and become citizens, the excessive scale of land will cause a large number of landless farmers and bring serious social problems. The speed and degree of large-scale operation should be in line with the transfer of farmers, and should follow the trend. We cannot set tasks, set targets, or force orders.

Reporter: The "No.1 Document" of the Central Committee proposes to develop family farms. What is the difference between Chinese family farms and western countries?

Han Changfu: Family farm is the main mode of agriculture in western countries, and its essence is family management. Family management can adapt to both traditional and modern productivity. There is no problem that agricultural modernization will change family management. China also needs to develop family farms on the basis of household contract management. China's family farms should emphasize the appropriate scale. American family farms often cover thousands of acres or even tens of thousands of acres. I have been to Brazil and Argentina, and a family farm covers more than 3000 hectares. China can't do it on that scale. At present, each farmer has only half a hectare of land. If a family farm has 1000 hectares, it means that 2000 households have their land planted for one household. What are the other people doing? It must be a long process to find a way out. Therefore, China's moderate scale of operation is determined by its national conditions.

To build a family farm, we should consider the following supporting issues: Is the family farm a legal person? What supporting and guiding policies are there? In particular, there should be social services. The socialized services of western family farms are sound. If the tractor breaks down, someone will repair it after calling. There is also a professional team to provide services for medicine. We still have a big gap in this respect.

"Let Chinese people have enough and eat well, and let farmers really become rich"

Reporter: What is the goal of our agricultural modernization?

Han Changfu: In China's agricultural modernization, the first step is to ensure the food security of more than one billion people and the effective supply of important agricultural products, so that the Chinese people can eat well. Second, we should make farmers rich, transfer them and share the fruits of industrialization, informatization, urbanization and agricultural modernization. Without these two principles, agricultural modernization will go astray. At a deeper level, China's agricultural modernization should not only solve agricultural problems, but also solve farmers' problems; We should consider not only industrial economic issues, but also rural social issues.

The Chinese people's jobs should be firmly in their hands, and their production capacity should be basically built on themselves. The two are inseparable. This is also "bottom line thinking". Of course, ensuring food security is not "asking for nothing". We should properly import the main grain on the premise of giving priority to ensuring self-sufficiency. Take soybeans as an example. When China joined the WTO, the import of soybeans was only more than 10 million tons, and now more than 50 million tons. At that time, the national soybean area was 140 million mu, but now it is only 100 million mu. Other crops have been converted to corn and rice, with higher yield, better benefits, more willing farmers, and more needs in China, so we will follow the trend. The export of labor-intensive products, such as fruits, vegetables, aquatic products and poultry, increased after China's entry into the WTO; The import of resource-based agricultural products, such as soybeans, edible oil and sucrose, increased. This is a positive change in the import and export structure.

The concept of grain in western countries refers to wheat, rice and corn. China also includes soybean and potato, potato and sweet potato. At present, the average self-sufficiency rate of the three major cereals in China is 98%. The import of rice and wheat mainly depends on variety adjustment. The import of corn will be gradually and appropriately expanded, because as the consumption of meat, eggs and milk increases, the demand for feed grain will also increase. In addition, the corn industry chain is long, and there are thousands of products. The expansion of corn deep processing will also bring new demand.

Reporter: What about farmers' income?

Han Changfu: It is difficult for farmers to further increase their income. Farmers' income mainly includes family operating income, wage income, property income and transfer income, and the basis is family operating income. Now the cost of manpower and means of production is rising, and the income space of farmers is squeezed. We should speed up the development of modern agriculture and raise this income. At least four things should be done: promote the improvement of science and technology, equipment, seeds and agricultural mechanization, build high standard farmland water conservancy, improve the agricultural socialized service system, and cultivate new professional farmers. These four aspects need the support of national policies and are also the new driving force for farmers to increase their income. Government subsidies account for a large part of farmers' income in western developed countries. Another is to increase the income of migrant workers and improve the property income of farmers.

"Farmers are the main body of developing modern agriculture"

Reporter: In recent years, more and more business entities have entered agriculture. So, is there any new change in the role of farmers?

Han Changfu: We are "three rural", not "one rural". Large enterprises can only hire a small number of farmers when they go to the countryside to "counter rent and subcontract". What about other farmers? To develop modern agriculture, the point of action and combination of productive forces and production relations lies in the main body of business, and cultivating new main bodies of business is a basic way. Who will be the main body? I think farmers should be the main body. If the new main body excludes the farmers, agricultural modernization is not created by the farmers, but by the outside world, and the problem of farmers is still unsolved.

We should develop large farmers in the planting industry, breeding industry, farmers' cooperatives, especially professional cooperatives, and let them be the main body to guide the land to concentrate on the skilled farmers. The new management system for developing modern agriculture is based on the new type of professional farmers, together with the socialized service organizations and industrialized leading enterprises.

Reporter: How do enterprises divide labor with farmers?

Han Changfu: We encourage and welcome enterprises to invest in agriculture. However, when enterprises invest in agricultural operation, they need to connect with farmers, family farms and professional cooperatives. For example, farmers who operate greenhouses to grow vegetables do not necessarily raise seedlings by themselves, but leading enterprises can do it; Farmers do not need to raise chickens and sell pigs by themselves. They can cooperate with enterprises in order. Industrial and commercial enterprises do not necessarily have to plant land, engage in pre-production, mid-production and post-production services, and engage in seedling, circulation, processing and sales. Reasonable division of labor between enterprises and large professional households and family farms in the industrial chain can achieve mutual benefit and win-win results and promote industrial modernization.

"At that time, farmers are no longer an identity, but a profession"

Reporter: There is a saying that agricultural modernization is to reduce farmers. To what extent will farmers be reduced?

Han Changfu: Rich farmers need to reduce farmers. With the advancement of agricultural modernization, the rural population will certainly decrease, but it will not be as small as in some western countries. By 2030, the peak population of China will be 1.5 billion. If the urbanization rate reaches 70% at that time, it means that there are still 400 million to 450 million people in rural areas, and the rural labor force is about 200 million, including about 40 million to 50 million farming labor force, and some people are engaged in animal husbandry, including the employment around agriculture such as primary processing, storage, transportation and marketing of agricultural products.

Reporter: What will happen to farmers' lives?

Han Changfu: When the agricultural modernization is realized, some large farms may appear, but the basic structure is a family farm of moderate scale. Farmers are no longer an identity, but a profession, and are agricultural industry practitioners. Farmers will have socialized services for farming. The degree of scientization, mechanization and organization is relatively high, and the labor intensity is not too high. The income from farming is not worse than that of migrant workers and urban residents. Modern housing construction, roads leading to the door, farmers can take a hot bath a day. Basic public services in urban and rural areas have been equalized, and children's schooling, medical care, and old-age care are not much different from those in urban areas. This is the wish of Chinese farmers, which can only be realized through continuous efforts. (Author: Zhao Cheng, Dong Jun Source: Xinhuanet)